I had a customer that said we killed her grass, on examination it was chinchbug activity and drought damage. since our lawn guy was supposed to catch the chinchbug problem before it got that bad I was going to reseed the area.

I found a plus 2in mat of thatch that has extensive woody roots in it from white birch and crabapple.

The neighbors were able to tell me that the new owners did'nt water as much as the previouse ones (imagine that).

I figured that removing the mat would damage the tree so i just did a topdress and overseed punching a few holes in the mat with my soil probe, not wanting to run an aeirator (LA28 reciprocating) through the roots.

what problems does anyone forsee?

Reply to post by JPS, on November 08, 1999 at 22:49:47:

Problems for the lawn, or for the trees?
Two inches of thatch is too much, and has likely been there for a while if tree roots have colonized it. Excessive thatch would indicate poor management of the lawn, particularly fertilization and mowing and irrigation. Biological control is best; topdressing, as you have done, is helpful; also liming (do a soil test first... several light applications are better than one heavy app. Around here, we say you can have a pH of about 6.1-6.5 and grow most trees and lawn fairly well.) Some cultivation is very helpful, too; perhaps essential. I think you can do core aeration without too much damage if you stay several feet away from the trees and use a good machine. How about enlarging the mulch ring?

Reply to post by JPS, on November 08, 1999 at 22:49:47:

It may be that the "less watering than previous" means less frequent than a watering regime that fostered shallow rooting. The lawn and trees both may be stressed after being watered this way and then going cold turkey to a less frequent schedule. There seems to be intense competition between turf and tree roots. Perhaps it should be determined whether a better watering schedule will support both equally. It may be that the trees are more valuable than the affected areas of turf, and that they can be converted to mulched areas, as Ed suggests. Also, have you dug a test hole to see what the soil profile is like? It may be that the roots are sitting on a compacted layer. Is water penetration and drainage an issue? What kind of grass is it?

Reply to post by Mark Goodwin, on November 08, 1999 at 22:49:47:

My concern over the long tearm is the trees, being that the majority ov the roots seem to be in this mat.

I have convinced the client to give a good soaking watering on a weekly basis if no significant rain falls.

I puuled a core with a probe and there is the ubiquiouse hard clay with a small layer (about 3/4 in) of topsoil under the mat.

our soil in the Milwaukee metro area tends to be slightly base due to the limestone we sit on. And lake water, wich is our city sorce, is the same.

origional grass is a bluegrass dominant turf with some fine fescue and coarse invasive speicies, due to the shade I seeded with a mix of primarily blended fine fecue, then perennial rye, and a small amount of blue grass blend, also about 5% annual rye so pople can see some thing sprout right away and not loose interest in the watering.

Mulch is not an option that the client wants, even though I offered free composted chip. (another argument I've heard. Does mulch imply compost, or can fresh chip be called mulch? I'm not comfortable doing so.)


I am assuming that the birch propibly won't do well in the site and told the client to be prepaired for it's decline.


I can see your mailbox; I can see your doorstep
I can feel my wind rock your tip-top treetop
All around your house there my sunbeam whispers
This land is made for you and me.
W.G.-1957