Reply to post by Mark Hartley, on October 31, 1999 at 20:14:22:

Let me be candid. I damage trees 4 or 5 days a week. I do it for a living. Every time I make a cut, I damage a tree. The biggest source of my income is removals. If the killing of a live tree is not damage, there is no damage.
Spikes: I cringe when I see spike wounds in some trees; other trees with spike marks does not concern me.
I was in a Dougfir early Sat a.m. taking a hanger out. Used spikes off the ladder top. Anyone wishing to do that job with no spikes is welcome. I could have done it that way too: didn't feel like it.
Did I damage the tree? Absolutely yes. Does that bother me? Not a bit. Is said damage visible from the ground? No. Chance of health problems from said damage? I estimate 0%. Could I have gotten hanger out any other way? Yes, if I had brought a Bigshot. Would I footlock up a line placed into the branches? Not a chance. Small branches, slope down, and I don't care for that technique, although I practice it once in a while so I still can. Back to spikes: From ladder to point where I could reach hanger with 18 ft. pole: 6 ft.
End result: dangerous hanger gone. Good $$ made (which is why I work- not out of boredom.) Was tree hurt? No, they do not feel pain.
If this scenario is malpractice, I plead guilty, with no compunction. Peter Torres

Reply to post by Peter Torres, on November 01, 1999 at 05:05:05:

Peter time to define our terms.

Hurt: Cause damage, impair, mar, spoil.

Use Spurs: Drive the gaffs into the tree.

Misuse Spurs: As above on live tissue that is to remain.

Unethical Spur use: Misusing spurs without (in particular) educating the client
and for the motivation of increasing revenue by reducing time
spent or for the purpose of reducing effort.

Delusion: A false belief (eg it is ok to use spurs on live tissue that is to be retained)

Let us not be delusinal about the situation. Spurs are a valuable tool that are in themslves good.
Unfortunately greed and lazyness will lead some to missuse them. Use them all you like correctly
but don't try to con the world if you are damaging remaining tissue, if you are not then that is
as defined correct usage.

Mark