We plan to buy a new data collection computer to replace our HP 95 (perhaps the best $500 we ever invested in equipment). I bought a HP jornada 680 but the screen is not really readable out of doors. I've read the Palm threads and appreciate your observations. Any other thoughts on data collection devices? We are Excel based in a PC environment. We make a fair number of text comments, so a keyboard is a must. Thanks.

Jim

Reply to post by Jim Clark, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

Jim

I have considered the same problem in respect of text comments and have taken the view that recording comments separately on tape, to be entered back at the office is the best approach for me. I also would appreciate any feedback on alternative solutions.

Do you still have my prize binoculars?

Mike Ellison

Reply to post by Jim Clark, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

Regarding Palm:

I find it easy enough to enter text comments using the built in 'grafiti' handwriting recocnition. It is one of the easiest to use, and is rather intuitive. It is about as quick as printing on paper, just takes a little practice. The other really nice feature is recording 'text shortcuts'. Just record it once, then use two or three pen strokes to type in the whole word or phrase.

Pendragon Forms is said to work well with the Windows applications. I know it connects to Access, I think to Excel, too. There are other spreadsheet applications for Palm. And you can't beat the size- put it in your pocket while you hold the d-tape.

Reply to post by Jim Clark, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

Jim, I hear you BIG time. Notwithstanding the entusiasm of Palm (& clone) users, the lack of an actual keyboard is a real limitation. I did some research, but tabled it since the pressing need did not develop. But..

There was also apparently a very enthusiastic HP user base for the old machine and graet disappointment that it was abandoned in favor of Windows CE devices like Jornada. There is a reasearch group in Japan working a standard for a replacement. Try http://www.morphyone.org , let me know if that works.

There are some dedicated data collection devices, ut that get up into the $1,500-2,000 range. Husky is one of the main manufacturers, search on that.

As you might know, the sequence is from PDAs like Palm, Visor, Compaq Aero etc. to Palmtops like Jornada to Handhelds like the bigger Jornada and others. I've seen some Handhelds that are not much bigger than the Palmtops, so research that class of machines as well. One of the key items is battery type. The (non-color) PDAs and the old HP ran on AAs (or was it AAAs?) which are cheap, readily available anywhere and field swapable with no re-charge cycle. Some of the handhelds supposedly are engineered to maintain that characteristic.

Reply to post by Jim Clark, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

Jim,

I have a keyboard that I got with my Palm III. It is marketed as Go Type brand. It plugs into the base and is close to full size. It runs on the palms batteries. Folds up in carrying case when not in use. They also make one that folds to the same size as the palm to put in your other shirt pocket. Doesn't seem to shorten the battery life noticeably.
Besides access, you can save the data as Excel Files or as a couple of other data forms. Look up the Pendragon Forms page on the net, not sure of the address, but it seems to work fine.

Reply to post by Bob Underwood, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

A note on the Go Type keyboard for the Palm. This is not great for field use, I find, although you can manage it if necessary. The Palm simply slides down onto the connector and rests there. There is no clip to hold it in place. If it topples, the Palm can slip out, so this might be awkward to use holding with one hand and pecking with the other. I'm sure a resourceful type would find a way to anchor the Palm to it (Velcro?)

Otherwise, the keyboard is a reasonable substitute when on the road.

Reply to post by Jim Clark, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

Hi Jim,

Consider the Husky Fex 21 running windows Ce. It has a high tolerance for being dropped, stepped on, and rained on, not that any of us would ever do something like that to our tools..... It's programable and has a docking cradle that will allow it to run or charge off of your car battery.

We are thinking about switching to it from the venerable HP dos-based palmtop since thats been discontinued and service is going to die soon too.

Hope this is some help

Wayne

Reply to post by Jim Clark, on June 12, 2000 at 14:11:26:

We are using Palm IIIxe (about $250 each at the moment) for data collection for inventories and now to set up permanent urban forest health monitoring plots. We use Pendragon Forms 3.1 (demo from pendragonsoftware.com, software about $150 for a single user) to set up data collection so that the entire screen is used for each datum entered. The use of the entire screen makes field use very easy, and we have not had visibility problems with it.
Pendragon Forms 3.1 is built on Access, so you have full database capability on the host PC, and with a single click in the manager you can dump the data into an Excel file, which we do for backup and for manipulation.
As for keyboard: the Palm uses either Graffiti, or you can tap up a keyboard or numeric pad. I usually use Graffiti for a word or two, but use the keyboard for longer entries. Finally, we couple with that Documents to Go software (about $49 from dataviz.com) which formats any Word, WordPerfect, Excel, etc. file for use on the handheld. This allows us to have the protocol for data collection right on the handheld, for instance, as well as long species lookup lists and other data quality documents.