Does anyone have any knowledge of definitive standards for fall protection standards for tree trimmers while workingh in trees.

thanks

Reply to post by wayne pardy, on April 23, 1999 at 14:58:41:

There was an earlier thread on this. I don't know that there is 'definitive' since the OSHA standards are subject to interpretation. NAA as I understand it takes the position that tree care workers do not use 'fall protection' at all but rather 'work positioning systems' and are subject to different rules. I'd contact NAA.

Reply to post by wayne pardy, on April 23, 1999 at 14:58:41:

OSHA has some specific language that addresses what they call "Tree Trimmers". The text of those rules can be found in: 29 CFR - 1910.269 - Electric Power Generation, Transmission, and Distribution Vertical Standard; and 29 CFR - 1910.268 - Telecommunications Vertical Standard.

Both standards refer to the industry standard, which is very specific in it's requirements for fall protection while climbing trees. That standard is ANSI - Z133.1 - current edition. It is available through the trade organizations: International Society of Arboriculture, The National Arborist's Association; and the American National Standards Intitute (ANSI) itself. Links to their web sites can be found in this site's links section.

Do not confuse fall protection with types of fall protection such as: fall arrest equipment or work positioning equipment. Anything one does to protect a worker from injury from a fall to a lower level; IS fall protection.

Best regards,
KWK

Reply to post by Kerry, on April 23, 1999 at 14:58:41:

Is there anything in the standards about landing protection? Landing is more dangerous than falling!
verytreelylew

Reply to post by lewbloch, on April 25, 1999 at 12:30:04:

Actually Lew, there is currently insufficient coverage of drop zone safety for workers below. I have submitted some things to the ANSI Z133.1 committee that has helped in our operation.

I'm sure you were grinning a little bit when you wrote, but, since you bring it up....

The leading two ways tree guys get hurt and or killed is the landing (from a fall) and the landing (of falling material).

An unconfirmed verbal warning for falling material is not sufficient to protect workers below. Verbal warnings are virtually useless in a noisy atmosphere. We have developed a method of confirmed eye contact which has greatly reduced injuries and near misses from falling objects on our sites.

Best regards,
KWK

P.S. If anyone is truly interested in a copy of the write up I sent to the committee regarding drop zone protocol, I would be happy to send it for your review.

Reply to post by Kerry, on April 26, 1999 at 16:26:59:

Some of the most horrific fall injuries I've heard of have been not from impact but from being impaled on a sharp piece of brush.

So, that makes fall avoidance the primary goal. The second tier would be keeping the 'landing' area clear, but that puts the groundworker in harms way. So, Kerry's climber-groundworker communication model comes to the fore.

In my experience the problem is as much cocky, impatient climbers as it is sleepy groundworkers. Awareness and alertness are the keys. On jobs I personally ran visual contact and confirmation between climber and groundworker(s) was the rule (with confirmation being unnecessary if the climber can actually see that all groundworkers are out of range). Having the rule followed by crews where I was not personally present was always a challenge.

And Lew's right. "It ain't the fall that hurts it's the sudden stop." One of the old-timers told me that the day I started climbing. Humor is a potent teaching tool. You remember phrases like that.

Reply to post by Scott Cullen, on April 26, 1999 at 23:07:46:

Boy,

That's right on the money Scott. Worker awareness is critical. Sounds like you were practicing what we had to learn the hard way.

Confirmed eye contact when ground personnel are in proximity to the DZ, site inventory of workers and confirmed clear - if not in proximity, each worker is responsible for site inventory and knowledge of the activity of each other employee at all times.

We've found that aside from obvious safety benefits, habitual use of these prinicples improves job flow, worker inter-relationships, and helps prevent non-accident screw ups such as running over rake handles, etc. It promotes a team work philosophy on the site, since sooner or later, a ground worker is going to notice that a cocky climber is about to make a mistake, and gives an approriate warning.

Waalaaa, a quick temper tantrum, the cocky climber ignores the warning, screws up, and is more receptive to warnings from the ground in the future. Not theory, it works, and works well. That chasm between aerial staff and ground staff dissipates with the use of the eye contact system.

Have a good day all,
KWK

Reply to post by Kerry, on April 27, 1999 at 06:51:32:

I tell my people to sing, whistle, and yell at each other so the up top knows where everyone is. If he's (or I'm) going to drop something the old "HEADACHE!" is replyed to by everyone so the climber doentt have to search to make sure someones not walking toward/under him. (That is if you dont hear all, you look) and the gound looks to see if there's a traget in the DZ "LIGHTPOST!".

The only thing I've had to replace is a themometer/weathervane broke by a freak slide of a branch from about 60ft.

jp

Reply to post by Kerry, on April 27, 1999 at 06:51:32:

"We've found that aside from obvious safety benefits, habitual use of these prinicples improves job flow, worker inter-relationships..." etc.

10-4 on that. Again, none of this is new. Remember the IBM motto? "THINK." Again I have to thank the old-timers who trained me. Little things like 'if you're walking back to the truck for a chain saw file anyway, don't go empty handed, drag some brush back with you."

However IMHO, there can be an unintended consequence in going overboard on worker safety. Danger can heighten the senses. Fear is a real edge maker. If you continually reduce the need to be aware of danger (reduce awareness) you may make a new tier of dangerous things. I broached this with an insurance company safety engineer once and he acknowledged that there is some literature that supports it, but it's not talked about.

So the key is, as you implement safety procedures and devices you must double your efforts to promote awareness. Don't go to sleep just because it looks like the tiger's cage is locked.

Reply to post by John S, on April 27, 1999 at 09:29:49:

There are several reasons we don't like our people to yell, whistle, sing and otherwise carry on.

1) We reserve these attention getting signals for use during "urgent need" situations. If a lot of yelling and whistling goes on routinely, it is often ignored during an urgent need condition.

2) Consumers percieve a group that works quietly as being more professional, certainly as working safer. I've had customers comment that the last outfit they had on site was constantly yelling at each other and whistling, both of which were offensive to the customer. These commenting customers didn't know what to think for sure, but they percieved that safety protocols were not sound enough to keep workers from being in constant danger - necessitating a constant series of yelling to get out of the way. To some, the yelling sounded as if the workers were quarrelling all of the time.

3) Audible signals have minimum effectiveness on a noisy work site. If workers are trained to do visual inventories and make eye contact with fellow workers, an effective communication and worker inventory is in place on any work site under any conditions. On a quiet work site, verbal communication is seen as a nice added benefit. Incidentally, I think most guys that are experienced will agree with our policy of shutting down the chipper unless there is brush going through it. Nothing is more annoying than having a chipper running wide open when you're trying to communicate from tree to ground and back.

Communication and coordination of the operation are seperate issues from drop zone safety protocol. No matter what the plan of action is, we expect our aerial workers to look at the intended drop zone prior to releasing falling material, to ensure that it is clear, every piece, every time.

Best regards,
KWK

Reply to post by Kerry, on April 30, 1999 at 21:17:25:

1&2 I guess we'll agree to disagree. Ive had people say they like how we work, reminds them of their military time. A comand give and repeated, like "fire in the hole" for Arty or mortars. I also use hand and arm signals if someone's real high up.

3. The thought of a chipper running w/o an operator by it makes my skin crawl. (that is if one is draging brush their not by the machine)

Reply to post by Scott, on April 27, 1999 at 09:29:49:

How fine is the line between compitance and over confidance?

Reply to post by Kerry, on April 27, 1999 at 06:51:32:

On my crews it is standard that the groundspeople do
not walk under the tree until looking at what is going
on. The climber will still look in most cases but can
not always see what is going on below. Therefore it is the
groundspersons job to protect themselves. Verbal commands from
the climber are "cutting!" and "clear?". The groundspeople
reply "clear!" to both and if they see that the climber
is about to do something they will yell clear right off
the bat. We rarely cut and chip at the same time so noise
is not always a problem. If other saws are running, we shut
them down while doing tricky stuff.

Dave

Reply to post by JPS, on May 01, 1999 at 18:46:27:

When I started in the business I stopped to look at a used drum chipper that another outfit had for sale. He told me that they left the chipper unattnede for a little while and "Little Johnie" chucks a hunk of concrete in the chipper. Fortunately no one got hurt. The chipper knives got broken. When confronted with a replacement bill for the knives, Dad of "Darling Johnie" told him to take a hike. Dad did not figure it was his responsibility. He must have had his Teflon suit on that day, responsibility doesn't stick to Teflon.

Tom

Reply to post by John S, on May 01, 1999 at 05:45:35:

Often, pretty thin. Some very good workers get hurt because they forget to be careful. Or they don't forget, they think they are too good to bother. Of the four people I know who've been cut in the face with a chain saw only one was a weekend warrior. The other three were competent pros.

On the other hand it can be pretty wide. There are some cocky people who are really incompetent. They don't know enough to recognize how incompetent they are.

I think the bottom line is they are two different measures or qualities. Competence or ability on the one hand and attitude on the other.

Reply to post by Tom Dunlap, on May 05, 1999 at 19:53:42:

Had a couple big removals lined up this winter, since I lost my 12in chipper and have been working with a 9 I decided to rent a 12in drum. Now I know why their called Widow Makers! Dern thing scared the sh** out of me! POOF and a 9inx8ft log is gone.

Efficent as all get out, but I'll stick with slow feed, thankyouverymuch.

Reply to post by John S, on May 01, 1999 at 05:45:35:

The line between competence and overconfidence is thin enough to write the word "luck" on. The real problems are hangovers and arrogance.